Heber J. Grant -- 1895-1898

[January 8, 1895] Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said he had received a telegram from brother Moses telling him that his health would not permit of his being present. Referred to be trouble existing between brothers Thatcher and Merrill and hoped that the same would be settled satisfactorily to all . . . these things should not be because it is our duty to be one.

Franklin D. Richards It seems strange that such men as Bennett, Powers and others of this kind should have a hand in so many important matters that we have nothing to do with, but the Lord is at the helm, and all will be well with us if we do right.

Francis M. Lyman Had felt that our labors to make a reformation among the people would be of no value unless their was a preaching done by the leading brethren by the examples which they set before the saints . . . Love brother Moses. . . . Referring to the differences existing between brothers Merrill and Thatcher he felt that Bro. Moses would do anything that would be required of him in that matter.

[January 9, 1895] Marriner W. Merrill Expressed his regrets because of the little differences which existed between him and Moses. He had no feelings against brother Moses not in the least.

[January 10, 1895] John Henry Smith He referred with much pleasure and pride to the brethren who had formed the delegation from Utah which had attended the Trans-Mississippi Congress which had recently been held in Saint Louis. Was pleased to have such able men there to represent our people. The Saint Louis papers had spoken in praise of our delegation. Said it was wonderful to him to see the respect and honor that had been shown to our brethren at the Congress. Said the speech of Frank J. Cannon had received more applause than that of any other speaker. Referred to a banquet which he had attended at which a Mr. Harry Whitmore, an influential gentleman, had spoken and said that he had made a personal effort to have a good representation of the Mormons present at the Congress and said that his reasons for doing so were that he loved these men, and felt that if others knew them as he did that they would love them also. He spoke of a dinner that had been given at the home of Mr. Theo. F. Meyer at which Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon had spoken for about fifty minutes with the most perfect freedom. Pres[iden]t Cannon had explained our faith fully. Mr. Meyers made a short talk and told of his recent visit to Salt Lake of his meeting with Abraham H Cannon, Heber J. Grant and others and of his feelings towards them. He said that he loved this body of men (referring to the Mormons he had met) and that they were welcome into his home. [Lew Wallace and Utah experiences.] He referred to the fact that all of the men who had met Pres[iden]t Cannon in Saint Louis, and who had served with him at the time he was in Washington as the representative of Utah had met him with the greatest warmth of feeling . . . he was indeed thankful for the fine reception tendered to our delegation and the honor that had been given us in having Pres[iden]t Cannon selected to preside over the Congress.

[While John W. Taylor was speaking Thatcher arrived] Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow explained for the benefit of brother Moses Thatcher what we had done at our former meetings. Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher said that he had not received the special invitation of pres[iden]t Snow to be present at our meetings. Adjourned for lunch, which we had in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Snow stated that we would now take up the little differences which existed between brothers Thatcher and Merrill. He believed that every man in the quorum desired the best of feelings to exist between each member of the quorum. He had no doubt that all that was needed to bring about a perfect reconciliation would be effected. AH Cannon then read some letters from the Presidency, Bro[ther]s Merrill and Bro[ther] Thatcher also the article which had been published in the Logan Post, and about which the feelings had arisen. Moses Thatcher referred to the laws of the Church to show that it was the duty of brother Merrill to have come to him in case he felt that he had been injured and not to have written to the Presidency about the matter. He denied positively that he had ever made the statements that it was claimed he had done in the article in question.

Pres[iden]t Snow felt that it was all wrong for a paper to publish that which was not true, and felt that the proper thing would be for a denial to be published and that it would be in several papers so that it would have as wide a circulation as the falsehood had had. Bro[ther] Thatcher said that he was willing to publish any denial of the report of his speech in Paris, that it was thought proper for him to make after due consideration of the matter. Expressed his surprise at the manner that Bro[ther] Merrill had acted. Bro[ther] Merrill explained that when the article was published in the Post which purported to be a speech of Bro[ther] Thatcher in which he had cast reflections on an apostle "over in Cache Valley" that he had supposed he was the apostle referred to, and had asked the Presidency what to do and had followed their advice. He had no ill feeling towards brother Thatcher in the least and was pleased to know that he had not made the statements purporting to be his remarks at Paris. John Henry Smith said that it was almost impossible for men to report what was said by the brethren. Related where he had been misquoted. Said 12 men had published a statement of what he had said at a political meeting and that what they said was absolutely false. Referred to statements in the Herald that he had had to brand as absolutely false. Was fearful Moses' political enemies would doubt his denial. Bro[ther] Thatcher felt that it was his duty to make right anything he had done to injure the Presidency or one of his brethren. Heber J. Grant felt that it was the best thing for Bro[ther] Thatcher to publish a denial of the report of his speech. (Taylor disagreed) AH Cannon felt that denial would do more harm than good. Referred to the fact that brother Thatcher was not often at our meetings, and said that he thought there were feelings between the First Presidency and brother Thatcher and felt that he owed it to himself to be at our meetings oftener and thus to get more in harmony with the Presidency. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that it was the privilege of Bro[ther] Thatcher to live to a good old age and to accomplish all that God desired of him. He could grow in power, but he have got to become one if we succeed in finishing the work that the Lord wishes us to do. We must feel of the hearts of the First Presidency and became in full accord with them. When Bro[ther] Thatcher was chosen as a member of the apostles Bro[ther] Woodruff had spoken in the warmest manner possible of brother Thatcher, and if the same warm feeling did not exist today it would be restored. I honor the First Presidency because God has honored them. Their faults and failings I do not take into consideration. (decided that he should compose an article in rely and denial to Post article) All of the brethren present were pleased that Moses was willing to do this and they were glad that he had not made the statements that had been published. Moses spoke about twenty minutes and bore a strong testimony to the truth of the gospel. Referred to his poor health and the many attacks that had been made on him in the public press. his failure to get as kind treatment in his sickley condition as he should have had from his brethren. Referred to the fact that it had been published that he was going out the Church etc etc and said that his faith was unshaken and that he not going to be driven out of the Church. He wanted to be one with his brethren and to be humble and on hand to be taught. He spoke with considerable difficulty as he was feeble. Our meeting this afternoon has been a very painful one to me as I have disliked to see brother Thatcher humiliated in his sick condition.

[January 11, 1895] Called at the President's office and had a chat with Pres[iden]ts Woodruff and Smith at the request of the brethren I told them of our meeting in the Temple yesterday and of the statement of Bro[ther] Thatcher that he had not made the remarks which had been attributed to him in the Paris Post and that he was going to write and have them make a correction.

[January 16, 1895] Spent the evening at Emily's. I will be a happy man when the time comes that I can live with her as a husband and not have to simply call and spend a few hours, and never stop over night at her home.

[January 17, 1895] [More on Thatcher's denial.] W[illia]m B. Preston, who spoke at Paris at the same time as Bro[ther] Moses and Bro[ther] Preston said that the published report of the remarks was not correct and it was suggested the Bro[ther] Preston also publish a card . . .

Moses Thatcher spoke very feelingly about some matters wherein he had been misunderstood. He referred to the Standard of Ogden and the vile attack that had been made on him. Was sorry that Pres[iden]t Woodruff had got the impression that he, Moses, was one of the political committee which called on the Pres[iden]t at the time of the first division on party lines, and which committee tried to place the First Presidency in a wrong light before the people. Moses was there on invitation from the Presidency’s office and not as a member of the committee. He was glad that the brethren were satisfied with the letter that he had written I was much pleased to see Brother Moses looking so much better today than he was when he met with us last. I hope and pray with all my heart that the Lord will bless him and give him health and strength.

[February 8, 1895] [C&G & Co meeting.] Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon said that he had unbounded faith that there were very good times coming to the Latter day saints in financial matters-- I feel greatly encouraged in listening to his words, and I feel that his impression are from the Lord.

[February 20, 1895] Read in morning Herald the answer of Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon to the attack which has been made on him in the New York Times. I never bothered to read the attack, and from what I have heard of it and from the answer I have no desire to do so as I feel that it is a fraud, and a very outrageous thing . . . At 3:30 had a chat with Mr. C. C. Goodwin regarding a $600,000 mining proposition in California.

[February 25, 1895] While at the President's office I listened to a long talk on the affairs of the Bullion Beck and Champion mine. Pres[iden]t Cannon telling us of the differences between the different parties who are contending as to the future directors for the company.

[March 10, 1895] [Emily's son Daniel Wells died; Grant had not thought he was that sick, neither had SB Young, but the boy's mother had been worried.] It is very painful indeed to me to have to leave Emily alone tonight. I will be thankful indeed when the time comes that I can live with her as a wife and in a manner that will bring peace and happiness to both of us Gusta feels as sad over my loss as it could be possible for her to feel. She would gladly do something to comfort Emily were it in her power to do so. . . .

[March 11, 1895] . . . Spent almost the entire day at Emily's . . . Sent a telegram to Bro[ther] Lyman telling him of the funeral of Daniel. I am in hopes that he will be present as I would like to have him speak a few words to those who attend.

[March 12, 1895] I feel truly thankful for the remarks which were made at the funeral today. I do not now recall that I have ever attended a funeral in my life where there was a much freer spirit or where there were more things said to comfort and bless those who had been called upon to mourn I felt as I saw brother Snow coming into the lot that he had a blessing from the Lord for Emily and me and after hearing the great promises which he made to Daniel I felt to thank the Lord with all my heart that He had blessed me with a son who was worthy to have such great and glorious promises made to him. I feel that one's life has not been lived in vain when the Lord had given him such a treasure.

[March 31, 1895] Started a long letter to Mr John Claflin asking him to invest in our mining enterprise, but finally decided not to finish it after I had written about three pages, as I feared that it would not be a wise thing to have him think I was going into mining.

[April 3, 1895] [Apostles meeting] Francis M. Lyman He felt that there was great need for the saints to reform in the matter of having hard feelings over political matters.

Brigham Young referred to a remark of Bro[ther] Thatcher's in which he had said that brother Brigham's father was jealous of Orson Pratt. Bro[ther] Young felt that this was not true, and desired to have the matter brought up sometime when brother Moses was present at one of our meetings and when he was feeling well

Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow . . . Referred to the course of Bro[ther] BH Roberts had taken in the convention on the question of Women's suffrage and he felt that we should be charitable in passing judgment on Bro[ther] Roberts. When brother Roberts retires to the rest one Spirit of the Lord will show him the error of his course. The Lord has given brother Roberts great abilities and he is capable of doing a great work The Lord is merciful and forgiving. As to what the Convention may effect in giving us statehood he could not say and he did not care, as no man could say unless God had revealed it to him whether Statehood would be beneficial to us or not.

John W. Taylor Referring to the course that BH Roberts had taken in the convention he said that he or no other man could have his support who would do as he had done. Bro[ther] Roberts knew that it was the wish of the Presidency that equal suffrage should be provided for in the Constitution, but the one thing that he blamed Bro[ther] R. for was his standing up and saying to the Convention that the reason that the two parties put the suffrage plank in their platforms was to catch Mormon votes. He felt that a remark of this kind was a betrayal of the people. There was no need for such a remark to have been made. Feared that Bro[ther] Roberts desired to go to Congress. Had been delighted with the testimonies of his brethren . . . If Brother Moses will uphold and sustain the First Presidency and feel that all is right in politics and everything else I testify that he will be made whole I and strong, but my spirit is bowed down with reference to brother Moses Every dog is barking against brother George Q. Cannon, and I tell you that God is directing Pres[iden]t Cannon.

Heber J. Grant endorsed the remarks of Brother Taylor, and said that he did not endorse the course that Brother Roberts had taken in the convention, as he felt that it was not in the interests of the people, and he felt that it was the duty of members of the Church to work for the good of the people and for their best interests even if they did not happen to see things just as the brethren did. (while Bro[ther] Grant was talking Brother John H[enr]y Smith came in).

John Henry Smith expressed his love for each and all of his brethren and his regrets that he had been detained at the Convention and not able to be present at our meetings. (Pres[iden]ts Woodruff, Cannon and Smith came in our meeting)

Brother John Henry Smith said that he would like to know what the brethren desired with reference to woman's suffrage, and had run up from the convention to get their ideas. He told of the Alta Club having agreed to work against it and that they proposed to use their influence to defeat the Constitution if equal suffrage were made a part of it.

Pres[iden]t Woodruff said that he felt that if we submitted a separate clause with the suffrage provision in it that Bro[ther] Roberts and others would go out to work against the adoption of this clause and that if the matter was made a part of the Constitution that they would have nothing to say, but would work for the Constitution, and he felt that our only way was to put the suffrage clause in the Constitution.

Francis M. Lyman said that he felt that our only chance to get equal suffrage was to put it into the Constitution.

Joseph F. Smith said that he feared we would have a warfare on our hands if we did not have the suffrage clause in the Constitution. He felt very strongly over the course that Brother B.H. Roberts had taken in the matter (remember that for November plus Thatcher feelings). Brother Roberts had been sent for And told by Pres[iden]ts Woodruff and Smith their wishes and requested not to be active in his opposition to the suffrage clause as it was in the interests of the people to have the suffrage clause approved and made a part of the Constitution. There was not feeling to ask brother Roberts to change his opinions but he should feel to sacrifice his own ideas so far as making a strong fight against the measure, but he had not done as he was requested. And Pres[iden]t Smith felt that he, Roberts, had betrayed his people. Pres[iden]t Smith was decidedly and emphatically in favor of suffrage for the Women. His idea was that the best thing was to have suffrage in the the Constitution, and if it was the cause of a defeat to Statehood then let Statehood go.

Franklin D. Richards was in favor of equal suffrage and felt that the proper thing was to have the clause made a part of the Constitution.

Lorenzo Snow was not fearful that the Constitution would be defeated if the suffrage clause was put in the Constitution and he should be very much opposed to the clause being removed from the Constitution.

John Henry Smith said that he was in a position to give up the suffrage plank rather than to have us lose a state government.. He was willing to do anything that was right in the sight of his Heavenly Father in order to secure Statehood. He wanted to know what was the will of Our Father in the matter, if he could find out what it was.

Pres[iden]t George Q. Cannon said that he had deplored our becoming ardent advocates of suffrage and or prohibition. Regretted the condition of suffrage in the Constitution, and if it had not been for the agitation on the question would say let it go, but I feel that we had better fight it out under the circumstances as that seems to be the general feeling of my brethren and I wish to be one with you. He explained that he had just returned from the east and his mind was not clear on the subject.

[April 9, 1895] At the meeting with the Presidency today there were several of the apostles present and we discussed the propriety of Pres[iden]t Woodruff sign the petition to the Constitutional Convention asking that a plank prohibiting the sale of liquors be inserted in the Constitution. It was decided that he better sign the petition.

[April 11, 1895] At 11 attended meeting of the Presidency and Apostles in the Temple Pres[iden]ts Woodruff, Cannon and Smith Apostles Snow, Richards, Young, Lyman, Smith, Smith, Teasdale, Grant, Taylor and Cannon were present . . . Bro[ther] John Henry Smith spoke of the feelings in the Convention against women's suffrage and the great danger of a reorganization of the Liberal party. . . . Evening had a chat with R. W. Young on the prospective raid threatened against those in plural marriage.

[April 13, 1895] Prest. Cannon told me of his settlement with Genl. Clarkson and the payment to him of $100.000. I was pained to learn that this amount of money had been paid to a man that I have no faith in and whom I think has never done what he claims to have done in the interests of the people of Utah. I intimated to Pres[iden]t Cannon that I did not think that H. B. Clawson could be trusted.

[May 5, 1895] [Logan] At the afternoon meeting Apostle Moses Thatcher was present I was very much pleased indeed to see him at meeting but was pained to see him looking so poorly. I would be pleased and thankful to see him in the enjoyment of health again, and I wish that he were able to get away from the cares of business and go out among the saints and hold short meetings with them as then I feel that there would be a chance for him to recover his health, but in the condition of health the he is now in and with the many cares that are upon him I have not much faith that he will ever be a well man, so long as he continues as he has been doing.

[May 6, 1895] Administered to Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher. He is looking some better than he was at the meeting yesterday. I enjoyed good liberty in blessing him.

[May 8, 1895] Had a long chat with U.S. att[orne]y Judd about unlawful cohabitation cases etc. He explained to me that he did not propose to prosecute any man who was not guilty of living with his wives as wives. He referred to a chat we had on the train as I was going to Saint George a year ago last Decr. I was sorry that I could not recall more of our chat at that time.

[May 9, 1895] My cousin AW Ivins left for Saint George this morning. I went with him to the depot. He made me a present yesterday of one half interest in his Bull Valley mine. I hope that this will turn out to be a valuable property. He wanted to eke me some payment for his board while he had been in the city attending the Constitutional Convention but this I would not allow him to do.

[May 14, 1895] This evening Gusta and I attended the meeting held in the interests of the Woman's suffrage cause in the Assembly Hall. Susan B. Anthony. Rev. Anna Shaw and others addressed the meeting. I was pleased with all that was said, but was amused beyond expression by Miss Shaw's address. It was brim full and running over with good things and delivered with force and ability She has a very amusing way of telling things and I do not think that I ever laughed so much in a half hour before in my life as I did when she was showing up some of the absurdities of those apposed to woman's suffrage.

[May 16, 1895] Took the 5:20 train for Saint Louis in company with Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon and wife Caroline; Nephi W. Clayton and his wife; and Abraham H. Cannon. On the train (met brother to Ogden)

[May 20, 1895] [St Louis] This evening attended a dinner party at Mr. Theo. F. Meyer's Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon and Mr. Theo. F. Meyer sat at the head of the table and Mr. Meyer's father sat at the opposite end of the table. On the south side of the table and to the right of Pres[iden]t Cannon were seated Tho[ma]s H. Vest Pres[iden]t of the Saint Louis Trust Co. and interested in the Los Angeles Terminal Ry Co. next Nephi W. Clayton, the Col. R. C. Kernes of the Los Angeles Terminal Ry Co. then Frank J. Cannon, then Judge George A Madill Pres[iden]t Union Trust Co., Geo[rge] W. Parker Vice Pres[iden]t of the Continental Nat[iona]l Bank, Pres[iden]t of the Caro Shortline Ry Co. and interested in the Los Angeles Terminal Ry Co. next Mr. Edward Mallincrodt, Pres[iden]t of the Mallincrodt Chemical Works. On the north side of the table and to the left of Mr. Theo. F. Meyer Mr. H.C. Harstich Pres[iden]t of the Saint Louis and Mississippi Transportation Co. and vice Pres[iden]t of the Saint Louis Trust Co. then Abraham H. Cannon, then Isaac V. Morton First Vice Pres[iden]t Simmons Hardware Co. then Bro[ther] Tho[ma]s G. Webber, the David K. Ferguson Pres[iden]t Mechanics National Bank, then myself, then Gov. E. O. Stanard Pres[iden]t Laclede Natl. Bank. Mr. Meyer called on Gov. Stanard to make an address of welcome which he did in a very neat little speech. Frank J. Cannon then spoke for over an hour in an interesting manner. Pres[iden]t Cannon then spoke in a most an excellent manner and gave a splendid impression I felt to all present of Utah and her people. We had most an enjoyable time and I was delighted to see the respect shown to Pres[iden]t Cannon and the other members of his party. I feel that truly the words of Pres[iden]t Wilford Woodruff spoken at the dedication of the Temple when he said that the time had come for Zion to be favored were fast coming to pass. I recalled the fact that it was only a few years ago that Pres[iden]t Cannon was being hunted by the U.S. officials and that a reward had been offered for his capture, and tonight he is the guest of honor at a dinner party where the leading men of one of the great cities have assembled at a dinner party. Pres[iden]t Cannon referred to the fact of the honesty of our people and also to the fact that our religion had never been understood and he hoped that the present meeting might lead to a closer friendship and more intimate business relations. He told of the desire of the leading officials of the Mormon Church to have a R. R. built to Los Angeles etc. etc. I should have been much pleased to have had a chance to expressed my pleasure at being present and to have thanked Mr. Meyer and his good wife for the pleasure and also to have thanked Gov. Stanard for some of the kind things which he said of our people, but the dinner party lasted with the speeches that were made until nearly eleven PM It is indeed a new thing for leading officials of the Mormon church to be invited to the homes of leading men of a great city. I am sure that a few years ago it would have been thought to be almost as bad as bringing some fearful disease into a man's home as to have invited a leading official of our Church to enter there.

[July 6, 1895] [Helps secure lease of Salt Lake Foundry for John Mc Lean, backs him some with collateral for a note.] I visited the room where the apostles meet and I prayed to the Lord to bless and assist the business that Bro[ther] McLean has entered into as it will be the means if successful of making employment for some of our people. [Grant to have a third interest in the profits; doesn't expect much] perhaps nothing I shall be satisfied if the business shall be able to meet its expenses and furnish some employment. [Learned McLean was drunk a good part of time since.]

[July 20, 1895] Cannon, Grant and Co. have a note of $5,000 due in Chicago monday and they are not in a position to make payment and I have been able today to get the gate and Zion's Banks to agree to loan us this amount. I feel humiliated to have to go around and see the directors of these two banks and ask them for loans when I know that they are now loaning us more money than they should do and more than is proper with the securities that they are now holding, but at the same time I feel that it is in the interests of these banks not to allow any trouble to come to Cannon Grant and Co as I feel that it would hurt the banks more than they will be injured by making us a loan of a few dollars more. [PT Farnsworth has advised him to keep out of mining.]

[July 27, 1895] The First Presidency of the Church arrived home this AM after a trip of a month to Alaska.

[July 30, 1895] [Council meeting of all presidency, 6 apostles, stake presidents, Caine, Richards, King] The matter under discussion was the activity taken by our sisters in the political matters. Nearly all of us who were present expressed regrets that the sisters should have taken such an active part in political matters and gone out and made so many speeches, and while we regretted this the general feeling was that for the Presidency to now ask these sisters to stop their work would bring ill feelings about among those not of us, and the cry would go out that the Church was not allowing its members perfect freedom. It was decided to let the matter go along as it had started, but the feeling generally was that leading officials in the Relief Societies should have kept out of active work in political matters. . . .

[August 6, 1895] At 2 pm attended the regular quarterly meeting of the apostles in the Temple Pres[iden]t Snow felt that Bro. Thatcher would be with us in these meetings, and he felt that Bro. Thatcher would have better health if he would come to our meetings than he will secure by going to the mountains for his health. Bro[ther] Merrill is away and I feel that he should be here also said that the first quorum of the apostles, in our day, although selected by men directed by revelation to call them had never come to a perfect union as we have done. The twelve selected by our Lord and Savior were not all united. [Compare to with these] our union is glorious.

[August 7, 1895] [Council meeting] Brigham Young felt that Moses Thatcher was in such a weak condition that he should go away from home, and get away from the business cares and annoying things which were constantly coming before him. He felt that there [should be more visits to stakes by apostles; also downplayed Teasdale as head of Mexican mission, Ivins right man; Lyman and JH Smith agree.] All of us who spoke on the subject expressed our opinion that Bro[ther] Ivins was by far the best man for the position of President. We felt that he was needed where he was and that he was doing good work in the St. George Stake. [Seeking other men for Mexico, but gave Ivins as first choice, Richard W. Young second, and Richard R. Lyman third]. [FD Richard mentioned he had about 600 pages of History of the Apostles.] [FM Lyman expressed agreement with Young about stakes needing more visits, each stake an apostle at least once a year.] The decision to report the name of my cousin Anthony W. Ivins to the Presidency to preside in the Mexican mission comes as a very severe blow to me financially as I am deeply interested with him in business matters in his section of the country. . . .

[August 8, 1895] [Council meeting; discussion of mission in Japan] Abraham H. Cannon explained that there was a Mr. Stanton who wished him to come to San Francisco and that the matter of his then going with Mr. Stanton to Japan had been considered. There was some negotiations pending to try and arrange a connection with the proposed Railroad company which is to be built to the coast by the Utah company making connection with a Japan Steam Ship Co. to have a line of steamers from Japan to San Diego. As this matter was now before the First Presidency the matter of a mission being opened up in Japan was allowed to pass from the present. [Grant delighted with such a mission; wants Oregon mining venture to pan out so he can get freed of debt so he can labor more among the saints or go on a foreign mission; then presidency arrived final decision on Mexico with Ivins arrived at.] Adjourned. I regret very much indeed that the poor health of brother Moses Thatcher has prevented him from meeting with us. I am one with Pres[iden]t Snow in feeling that his health would be better if he would meet with us oftener.

[August 17, 1895] Met the gentleman at Pres[iden]t Woodruff's office who has agreed to purchase $100,000 of the Utah Sugar Co. Bonds. I was well pleased with his looks. Mr. Banigan, I think is the name.

[August 19, 1895] [Morgan conference] Apostle John Henry Smith who spoke a little over an hour in a very interesting manner and bore a very strong testimony of the gospel. He spoke on infidelity, Statehood for Utah, Brigham Young Monument. F[a]st meeting. Woman's suffrage etc.

[August 22, 1895] At eleven attended meeting in the Temple. Pres[iden]ts Woodruff, Cannon & Smith and Apostles Snow, Richards, Smith and Grant present. We had a very pleasant chat. Pres Cannon told of the payment that had been made to Gel. Clarkson and of Clarkson's treatment of him because the railroad scheme that Pres[iden]t Cannon and others were trying to carry out to get a road to California was not being manipulated through Clarkson and Trumbo.

[August 30, 1895] [In Panguitch with Lyman] Rec[eive]d a letter from HC Whitney from which I learn that Heber M. Wells had been nominated for Governor of the State by the Republicans. I am pleased that Chas. Crane failed to get the nomination.

[September 1, 1895] Apostle Lvman then spoke for 72 minutes in a very interesting manner mainly upon the great good that Statehood would do the saints generally and the necessity for all to vote for the Constitution. Pres[iden]t Hatch followed and spoke 16 minutes partly on the same subject.

[September 3, 1895] [Milford] Met AW Ivins who is just on his way to Ogden as a delegate from Washington Co. the Democratic Convention in Ogden. [Many delegates on train next day through Utah County.]

[September 5, 1895] Took the Special Union Pacific Train at 7:18 carrying Delegates from Utah County to the Convention at Ogden. I left the train at Salt Lake, although I should have been pleased to have gone on Ogden to attend the convention. Several of the Delegates on the train assured me that I could have the nomination for Governor if I would accept it. The Utah Co. Delegates were solid for me. At Salt Lake I learned that all I needed to do was to say the word and I could have the nomination. I highly appreciate the compliment, and feel reasonably well assured that I could get the nomination were I to enter the fight, but I feel that it would be an unwise thing in view of the Church position which I hold. I called on Emily this AM and she was very much frightened for fear I was going to accept the nomination. I called at the office of the First Presidency and told them that I had been offered the nomination by a great many of the Delegates and that I had assured them that I would not accept. I intimated that I would do so if they desired it, and inasmuch as they said nothing to indicate that they would pleased to have me accept the nomination I wired to my cousin A. W. Ivins to use his influence to see that my name did not come before the convention, I did not care to have a few votes cast for me seeing that I did not want and would not accept the offer of the nomination Had a pleasant visit with Heber M. Wells and assured him that I was delighted that he secured the nomination from the Republicans for Governor as it would have hurt very much indeed to have had Crane secure it. I told him I hoped we could make some arrangements for him to remain with the Bank in case he were elected. Spent the evening at Emily's. Sate this evening received word that John T. Caine had been named as the Democratic man for Governor. Emily and I went up to her brother's home and informed him of the fact. Heber assured me this afternoon that he hoped brother Caine would be nominated as he would sooner run against him than some one who was not in politics. I am inclined to think Wells will be elected, but think it would be better for him personally if he were defeated.

[September 8, 1895] [Farmington conference] I spoke principally on Statehood and on the necessity of not getting excited over political matters, so as to destroy friendships and lose the spirit of our religion.

[September 11, 1895] Pres[iden]ts Woodruff, Cannon and Smith (Sam[ue]l Wooley's 70th birthday) made a few remarks after we had refreshments served and then they withdrew with some of the rest of us and went to Saltair on a special train. The party to Saltair was gotten up in honor of Mr. and Mrs. Theo. F. Meyer from St Louis.

[September 26, 1895] Attended a meeting in the Temple Pres[iden]ts Woodruff and Smith Apostles Snow, Richards, Teasdale, Grant and Cannon present. There was some talk about brothers Thatcher and Taylor being away from our meetings so much, and some of us expressed the sentiment that it was not right for them to be absent so much. I said that I felt that they should make an effort to be with us. I said that I felt that there should be a unanimous feeling about all matters in which any one of the apostles engaged. I thought that Bro[ther] Moses should not have accepted the nomination to be one of the United States States Senators without first having had a full and free chat with his brethren of the Apostles and also with the Presidency.

[October 1, 1895] At ten attended a meeting of the Apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow, and apostles Richards, Young, Thatcher, Lyman, Smith, Teasdale, Grant, Merrill and Cannon were present. [Much on meat in Word of Wisdom.] After the remarks of Bro[ther] Brigham (Richards and Snow and been lengthy too) we adjourned for a couple of hours as it was suggested that too long meetings might wear brother Moses out. . . . At the afternoon meeting Brother Moses was the first speaker. He said that these meetings of the twelve had always been a source of pleasure to him . . . He believed that with Statehood financial prosperity would come to us, and that the heavy load that the First Presidency were now carrying would be lifted from their shoulders, and that we would soon have the church in a strong position financially. He desired sincerely that Pres[iden]t Snow and his brethren should forgive him for any neglect of his in the past, to have attended his quorum meetings. He might have felt that his poor health was more of an excuse in failing to be with us than he should. He felt that eventually his health would be restored to him. Closed his remarks by praying sincerely that we might all be kept in the straight and narrow path that leads to life eternal.

[October 2, 1895] [Quorum meeting continued] (Teasdale) Referring to his release from the Presidency of the Mexican mission one of the good brethren at Juab had expressed the hope that he (Bro[ther] Teasdale) would come and locate there and be a good Democrat and help out the party. He said he did not expect to take any active party in political matters.

[October 3, 1895] Was delighted to have brother John W. Taylor with us. He had just returned from London, Abraham H. Cannon told of his having had typhoid fever in 1885 and that his spirit left the body and he visited his mother and had a chat with her. He had seen a beautiful country such as brother Merrill had told us of yesterday. His mother told him that he could remain with her if he wished and he said that he would be pleased to remain but when he came to think of his condition and how his family would be left financially if he were to pass away from the earth he decided that he would prefer to return to the earth again. He like brother Merrill had had noticed that there was no sun, but that there was a very brilliant light. I was told by a voice that I could live if I wished to and that the choice rested with me. When I returned to the earth and was about to enter my body again I felt a revulsion of feelings against doing so When I had entered my body and opened my eyes I found my family around me weeping and found that a cloth was tied around my head and preparations were being made to save my body washed as it was thought that I was dead. Brother Franklin D. Richards came in soon after and administered to me and he used the same words that were used when I was with my mother in which I was told that it was for me to decide as to whether I should live or die. I was very sick after that and many times my folks thought that I would die but I knew that I would live as I had decided to live and the promise that I should do so I felt was from the Lord.

[AHC] Gave a full account of a recent trip that he had had to take to San Fran cisco on business matters, and of his having met the Japan Minister there, and of a conversation which he had with the gentleman. This gentleman had spoken in the most favorable way of our people and expressed a desire to have our people introduce our religion in his country. Wished us to have an established mission in his country. He had a full report of a commission which had many years ago visited the United States and made a very extensive report on the country to the Japan Government, and among other things this Commission had made a very favorable report regarding our people. We were all much pleased indeed with the account which Brother Cannon gave us, and felt that in the near future that the Lord would open up the way for a mission to be established in Japan.

Brother Cannon spoke of the good feeling that many men had regarding our people, and referred to the fact that he had heard that Pres[iden]t U. S. Grant once said that he would like to raise his family among the "Mormons" as he thought they would have a higher regard for virtue. Pres[ident] Grant had said that he thought that some day the people of Utah would be bound to take an important part in the affairs of the Nation, and his dearest wish would be gratified if he could come to Utah to raise his family.

Pres. Woodruff expressed very much pleasure in meeting with us today and was pleased to see brother moses with us and glad that his health permitted him to be present . . . Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon related his experience while he was at Albuquerque at the Irrigation Congress. It was simply wonderful to notice the great respect that was paid to the Utah Delegation. . . . Utah was praised to the echo and he hoped that we were worthy of the many good things which were being said of us . . .

[October 7, 1895] At ten attended a Priesthood meeting in the Assembly Hall Brief remarks were made by Pres[iden]ts Lorenzo Snow, Marriner W. Merrill and David H. Cannon regarding Temple Work and the necessity of making correct records. The brethren felt that many were very neglectful with reference to their temple work and testified that it was as much a duty to do our work in the temples for the dead as it was to go and preach the gospel. Pres[iden]t Franklin D. Richards spoke on the necessity of getting up a good library to assist in getting the proper information for those wishing genealogical knowledge. Pres[iden]t Joseph F. Smith spoke 35 minutes mainly on Home Manufacturing and Priesthood. He referred to an apostle and one of the seven presidents of seventies having accepted nominations for political offices without consulting with the members of the their quorums and he felt this action was all wrong, I spoke for fifteen minutes after brother Joseph F. and endorsed all that he had said. . . . [Cannon continued] Referred to the great necessity of all our the men at the meeting doing all in their power to have a full vote cast in favor of Statehood. Endorsed what Pres[iden]t Joseph F. Smith had said about men not going in for political offices without first getting the consent of those who presided over them. Said he was glad brother Smith had said what he had, but said he would not have said it . . . Have met a lot of people this afternoon who are very much worked up over the remarks of Pres[iden]t Smith at the Priesthood meeting this morning. I am sure I endorse with all my heart ever word that he said and feel that there was no just reason to complain at his remarks.

[October 10, 1895] At 10:30 Bro[ther] Penrose and I had a chat with O. W. Powers on the political situation. At 11 AM attended a meeting of the Presidency and Apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Jos[eph] F. Smith stated that he had no intention whatever in his recent remarks at the Priesthood meeting in the Assembly Hall that the should be used politically, and that he had no thought that they might be.

[October 12, 1895] The Salt Lake Argus is making a strong effort to work up a political sensation over the remarks of Pres[iden]t Smith at the recent priesthood meeting in the Assembly Hall, but I do not think they will succeed.

[October 24, 1895] At 11 am attended meeting in the Temple. Presidents Woodruff, Cannon and Smith, and Apostles Snow, Young, Lyman, Merrill, Cannon and myself were present. Among other things a lengthy discussion was indulged in regarding political matters. and the general feeling was that we should stand absolutely firm in maintaining Church discipline, no matter how much political capital was attempted to be made out of the position which we felt should be maintained.

[October 25, 1895] This evening I took a party to the theatre, consisting of Mr. Manley and daughter, of Bar Harbor, Maine, and a lady friend of theirs, A.H. Cannon and wife, N. W. Clayton and wife, Dr. Elias and wife, O. J. Salisbury and wife, F. M. Lyman and John L. Lampson.

[October 26, 1895] This evening at 7:30 attended a dinner party at the Knutsford given by Mr. Lampson to Pres[ident] Woodruff, Cannon and Smith, Mr TG Webber, O. J. Salisbury and myself. Mr. Salisbury failed to put in an appearance. Mr. Lampson had tried to get Mr. Jos[eph] Manley to attend by that gentleman had excused himself (flowers sent to Miss Manley).

[January 8, 1896] Attended Quarterly meeting of the Apostles in the Temple John Henry Smith said that he felt that we should try and make our home missionary system more efficient than it was at the present time. Something should be done in this direction. Said that he felt that the present condition political was a very serious one and should have careful consideration. As to the question as to whether Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon or his son Frank J. Cannon should be selected as a U. S. Senator, he stated he had given the matter considerable thought, and had had many interviews with leading non-Mormons on the subject. He found some of the leading non-Mormons very strongly opposed indeed to Geo[rge] Q. Cannon going as U. S. Senator, and some of the leading non-Mormons felt that the election of Pres[iden]t Cannon would arouse old animosities in our midst, Bro[ther] Smith expressed himself as being opposed to sending a man like C. C. Goodwin, but felt that Frank J. Cannon could not be defeated on account of so many votes pledged to him Should Frank J. Cannon retire a great many feared that O. J. Powers would made an effort to unite all Gentiles in opposition to Pres[ident] Geo. Q. Cannon and send one Democratic Gentile and one Republican Gentile. He said that the High Council of the Cache Valley Stake was in a very bad condition, as many of the members were not living their religion. He felt that there should be a general straightening out indulged in the Cache Stake High Council. Referring to the spiritual condition of Elder Moses Thatcher, he did not think that there was the least danger in the world that any injury would come to the work of the Lord by letting Bro. Moses alone, and expressed it as his opinion that as long as his health continued poorly that he should be left alone absolutely. Thought that steps should be taken to have Bro[ther] B. H. Roberts understand that the position which he had taken politically was not consistent with which a Latter day Saint should occupy, Felt that men like B. H. Roberts must not be thrown away, but that every effort with our power should be made to bring him in harmony with his brethren. We go into the world and spend a lifetime to convert a man who is physically diseased and rotten to the core, and he felt that a man who would gladly give his life for his brethren in the cause of truth should not be allowed to drift away because of politics from his brethren. He felt that with a little earnest work that there was an array of young men in the different stakes who had been careless and indifferent who could be brought back into the church and made faithful workers.

Abraham H. Cannon testified that he had perfect faith in the honesty and integrity in his brother Frank J. felt that Frank’s repentance was sincere and honest, and that he was worthy of our confidence.

Francis M. Lyman said that he had the very best of feelings for all of his brethren. Was sorry that Bros Moses Thatcher and B.H. Roberts were not in harmony with their brethren. They are great men and we have no material of that kind to spare. Felt the great kindness should be used in dealing with Moses, also with Bro[ther] Roberts. Had the very best of feelings for both of these brethren Felt that the High Council of the Cache Stake should be looked after and a reformation effected. Felt that a labor throughout the entire Cache Stake was needed. He felt that Bro[ther] Roberts would come around after he had been talked with and would feel al right. Regarding the question of politics he has willing that the Lord should direct. He hoped that Bro[ther] Abraham was correct in regard to his opinion of Frank J. Cannon, and that Frank's repentance was genuine. Felt that of all the men in the Church that Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon was the man he would like to see go to Washington as U. S. Senator to represent our people and that it would be much better to send him than a young man who has such a checkered record as Frank J. has done, although he may have sincerely repented. Had no fears whatever that political matters would have any serious effect on the Church. we have been through some very severe trials politically. and the result of our labors was the birth of a new State, and he supposed that the trials and tribulations in connection with this great blessing were necessary, but in the providences of the Lord he felt that with Statehood the Kingdom of the Lord would be established more perfectly with greater strength and power than it had ever possessed before. Regarding Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, he felt that any labor that was taken up with him should be done by members of the quorum who were his seniors as he had discovered that Bro[ther] Moses did not seem to attach much weight to suggestions coming from his juniors in the quorum. [Adjourned till tomorrow.]

[January 9, 1896] Brigham Young referred to the talk regarding Bro[ther] Moses, and said that he was not able to fully approve of all of the sentiments which had been expressed regarding Bro[ther] Moses. He felt that there was no chance for mercy to step in the case of Bro[ther] Moses until such time as justice had been satisfied. Moses was not in harmony with his quorum, and he did not feel to let him lose the one chance of becoming in harmony with this quorum while he is yet living, so that he might be in harmony with us in the resurrection. He did not think that it was a merciful thing to Bro. Thatcher to let him alone because of his sickness, but he felt that he should make an effort to bring him in harmony with us. His heart was as tender as any of his brethren who had been speaking and he desired to be merciful, but he did not feel that it was a mercy to let Bro[ther] Thatcher alone. Bro[ther] Young [expressed hopes for agricultural future of Buckeye Canal]. He believed that speculators in Phoenix wanted to drive our people out of the Mesa country, but that Gov. Hughes and other leading men who had the best interests of the Territory of Arizona at heart were anxious to have our people remain in that section of the country. [Believed southern converts would be better colonized there than cold San Luis stake.]

Franklin D. Richards felt that the whole of the duties of our quorum if summed up, could be stated in our bringing ourselves into perfect and complete subjection to the priesthood of the Son of God. Stated that he loved Bro[ther] Thatcher, but wanted to know where Bro[ther] Thatcher would be when he came to meet Presidents Taylor and Young and the Prophet Joseph Smith on the other side of the vale if we allowed him to go hence without becoming in line with his brethren. He would have to get in line there, if such a thing was possible. He felt that it was very important, if we could possibly do so, to get Bro[ther] Thatcher to clearly see the position which he occupies. He felt that we would show the greatest mercy to Bro[ther] Thatcher by a laboring with him in getting to harmonize with his brethren. He spoke of the necessity of our being humble and giving the Lord the credit for all the favors which we were able to accomplish. Referred to the severe judgment passed upon Moses by the Lord when he was leading Isreal in ancient times (taking credit for water from rock) The Prophet Joseph was prolific in his judgment of men who did not render proper respect to the Lord and harmonize with the presiding priesthood, and he felt that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher had better be called to an account during his life, rather than be allowed to die and meet the Prophet Joseph while he was not in harmony with those who preside over him. He spoke of the great benefits which he felt would accrue to the people from Statehood. Felt that in the choice of a polygamist son of the chief executive of Utah that God had honored the principle of plural marriage. Spoke for several minutes referring to many incidents in connection with Statehood, where this principle would seem to him had been magnified by the Lord in the selection of men to hold official positions. [Stresses genealogy.]

Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that his feelings with reference to Bro[ther] Thatcher were that we should ask him to go to the First Presidency of the Church and make things right with them. Referred to the time just before the dedication of the Temple, when the brethren had labored until nearly midnight with Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher to endeavor to get him to harmonize with his brethren, and at this time he was warned that unless he made reconciliation with the Presidency, we would announce at the dedication that the hearts of all the brethren were united as the hearts of one man with the exception of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher Prior to this meeting Bro[ther] Snow sent Bro[ther] Brigham Young to labor with Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, and although he had worked with him for hours he was unable to make any impression of his mind. Referred to the fact that after the priesthood meeting held in the assembly Hall at the close of the October conference, wherein Bro[ther] Joseph F. referred to Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher as not being in harmony with his brethren, that Bro[ther] Thatcher had called upon him and that they had talked together for about three quarters of an hour, and he had pleaded with Bro[ther] Moses to go to the First Presidency and place himself in their hands, and account of the spirit manifested by Brother Thatcher he had hoped that he would follow his advice, and he was disappointed when he learned that he had not done so. He would like another effort made with Bro[ther] Moses, but felt that nothing could be effected with him unless it was done by the Lord. The spark which would reach the heart of Bro[ther] Moses must come from the Lord. No wisdom which we possess can do it. Bro[ther] John W. Taylor said that it had struck him that it would be a good plan for some of the brethren to visit Bro[ther] Moses at his home in Logan, Bro[ther] Heber J. Grant expressed a willingness to act on Bro[ther] Taylor's suggestion in regard to a visit to Bro[ther] Moses, but he lacked faith that any impression could be made upon Bro[ther] Moses by a member of our quorum, seeing that he and disregarded the advice given him by the President of the quorum to visit the First Presidency, after the priesthood meeting held last October. He knee that the Lord could heal Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher and make him sound and well bodily, but that death would be a thousand times better than for him to get well and not place himself in perfect harmony with his brethren. Referred to the fact that he had learned that there was a very strong opposition around Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q Cannon to go to Washington as U.S. Senator. Felt that we should labor to secure the nomination of Pres[iden]t Cannon and O. J. Salisbury as U.S. Senators. Referred to the fact that the Tribune waw trying to dictate in these matters, and he felt that we should assert ourselves and not allow that paper to control in political matters. Referred to the fact that Geo[rge] C. Parkinson was working for Col. Trumbo, and stated that he felt that Bro[ther] Parkinson should be requested to return home and attend to the duties of his presidency in the Oneida Stake of Zion in place of mixing up in Utah politics. Said that if the Lord wanted Col. Trumbo or Frank J. Cannon to be U.S. Senators he had no objection.

Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that inasmuch as Bro[ther] John W. Taylor seemed to have the spirit upon him that some one should visit Bro[ther] Moses, that he was in favor of sending Bro[ther] Taylor upon this mission, but suggested that if possible that he go without allowing Bro[ther] Thatcher to get the impression that he was sent by this quorum. Should Bro[ther] Taylor fail in making any impression upon Bro[ther] Thatcher he felt that he had no faith that anything could be done with him. Bro[ther] Grant suggested that two of the Apostles go, but this did not seem to strike Prest. Snow who favored sending Bro. John W. Taylor alone.

[January 26, 1896] At one attended my prayer circle in the Temple. At two attended meeting in the Tabernacle I did not feel much like talking, but Pres[iden]t AM Cannon suggested that I talk. I pointed to Brother Brigham H. Roberts, who was on the stand for the first time in a long while and suggested that he speak. Bro[ther] Cannon said that Bro[ther] Roberts was not in harmony with the Presidency of the Church and that he should not call on him to speak. I disliked very much to lacking in charity, and uttered a silent prayer to the Lord that in case the position of brother Roberts, wherein he was not in accord with the Presidency was not right that he would give me a testimony of this by giving me such perfect liberty in my talk to the saints that none of the people would feel to be disappointed because of hearing me. I also noticed my brother Brigham R. in the congregation and two of his sons and he is just contemplating becoming a member of the Church I asked the Lord to give me such a portion of His Spirit that what I said would find a lodging place in the heart of my brother and impress him that I had been inspired. . . . I am pained to have a testimony that Bro[ther] Roberts is in the dark, but I fell that the Lord has given me one in the liberty which I have enjoyed in speaking this a afternoon.

[January 29, 1896] Had a chat with Brother Heber M. Wells about the appointment of a District Judge and I feel sure that he will take the best man who makes the application for the position among his own party, and I do not feel that he should go out of his own party to get a man for the position.

[February 1, 1896] [Needs $10,000 to remit to Nyew York Security Co.] For Cannon Grant Co., prayed for Lord to assist co. to meet their obligations. Brother Webber agreed to deposit ten thousand dollars with Zion's Savings Bank and they agreed to loan the money to Cannon Grant & Co. and the ten thousand was remitted to the NY Sec. Co. for which I feel very thankful indeed.

[February 6, 1896] I have fasted and prayed for Moses Thatcher today. I feel to ask the Lord with all my heart that He will restore brother Moses if he can be one with his quorum, but if not I really feel that death would be a great mercy.

[February 10, 1896] [San Francisco] Went to Berkeley with Mr. Whitney Palache and stopped for the night. We called with his wife on her father Judge Garber. The Judge many years ago visited the settlements of our people in south-eastern Nevada, and was much impressed with the honesty and hospitality of the people he met, The Judge is one of the leading lights of the California Bar. [Unsuccessful.]

[February 13, 1896] At eleven attended a meeting of the apostles in the Temple. Shortly after noon the First Presidency withdrew from our meeting and the First Seven Presidents of the Seventies met with us. The object of the meeting of the apostles and the Presidents of The Seventies was to learn from Brother B.H. Roberts as to his position on a number of matters of importance, and to ask him with reference to some of his public remarks which were felt were not in keeping with what should be said by a leading Church official. Our meeting lasted until 7:45 and was the most painful meeting of my life as Brother Roberts refused to harmonize with his brethren and seemed willing sooner than to bow to the wishes of his brethren to have his position taken away from him I was unable to speak when I first got on my feet on account of the emotions which chocked me in thinking of the position that Brother Roberts was in. Apostles Lyman, Young and others of the brethren were moved to tears. Brother Roberts was firm in his position and none of us seemed to be able in the slightest degree to move him. He felt that he had acted in all fairness and honesty and had nothing what ever to take back. Reporter Geo[rge] Gibbs was present at the meeting and took down all that was said and so I shall not attempt to make a record of our proceedings only to say that the brethren all spoke with much power and with much of the spirit of the Lord, and that I was especially well pleased with the remarks of brothers Jonathan Golden Kimball and Rulon S. Wells of the same quorum as brother Roberts: I have felt more like death in the meeting today than at any funeral I have ever attended. feel that unless brother Roberts shall see the error of kits way that his soul is lost and this is eternal death, which in comparison to simply passing to our eternal reward by passing from this life to the next is nothing. Bro[ther] Lyman told him that to have followed him to the grave would be as nothing. [Felt Seymour B. Young was too sympathetic with Roberts.]

[March 5, 1896] At eleven attended a meeting of the First Presidency, Apostles, and the Seven Pres[iden]ts of Seventies. Wilford Woodruff, Geo[rge] Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, George Teasdale, John W. Taylor, Heber J. Grant, Marriner W. Merrill, Abraham H. Cannon, Seymour B. Young, C. D. Fjelstead, Brigham H. Roberts, Geo[rge] Reynolds, JG Kimball, Rulon S. Wells and George F. Gibbs Clerk, were present. The object of the meeting was to learn whether there had been any change in the feelings of Brother Brigham H. Roberts. The talk of brothers Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, myself and Rulon S. Wells was read and the reply of Brother Roberts as given at the meeting some two weeks ago when the same question was up. The object of the Clerk's reading these remarks was so that the Presidency and the other brethren who were with us on that occasion might know the spirit of the meeting. Brother Roberts said that his feelings had not undergone any change. Brother George Teasdale made a very feeling appeal to brother Roberts to humble himself and be one with his brethren for his own sake, for the sake of his wives and for the sake of his children. Pres[iden]t Woodruff and his counselors each spoke and warned brother Roberts as to the danger of his position, but nothing that was said seemed to make the least impression on him. Brother Lyman called his attention to the fact that when the Manifesto was issued that he was in the dark about it and finally gone the light, and warned him that he was today in the dark and asked him to humble himself. I spoke and told of the deep sorrow that had recently come into my life by the death of my only son, but said it was as nothing in comparison to the thought of the death eternally of Brother Roberts, but my remarks seemed to have no effect on brother Roberts. I feel that there is no hope for him unless the Lord shall soften his heart. Our meeting lasted from Eleven until a few minutes after five, and we adjourned for three weeks to meet at the same place, and in the mean time brother Roberts was suspended from his office as one of the Presidency of the Seventies and from acting in the Priesthood. At seven attended a meeting in the Templeton of a number of business men and the question of the a R. R. to Los Angeles was discussed at some length and all present were decidedly in favor of the proposition. It was voted to use the influence of those present to assist the enterprise.

[March 6, 1896] At seven thirty attended meeting of the House and Senate Committee on the Insurance Bill. I gave my reasons why the bill should not become a law.

[March 10, 1896] Arranged for $5525 to send to HB Claflin and Co. Act interest on the Church note of $250,000 $150,000 of same having been paid. . . . This evening called at the Herald and left a note regarding an editorial on the California R.R. project add the necessity of giving to the Company the ole fort block Left word if Editory Roberts did not care to write such an editorial to have some one come to my house and call me even if I were in bed. Seen after I retired word came that I was wanted at the Herald I found that brother Roberts was in full accord with what I wanted and had only sent for me because he wanted to know something more about what was wanted in the article for the paper in the morning. I was much pleased that he felt the same as I did about the matter.

[March 12, 1896] [Attended council meeting; then discussed sealing of brother's family in temple] After going upstairs again there was some talk regarding brother Moses Thatcher add it was felt that we should get his approval of any action that we might take in the case of brother B.H. Roberts. Elder Franklin D. Richards and I were appointed a committee to call on brother Moses and present what ever decision we might arrive at in the case of Bro[ther] Roberts and get his signature. Francis M. Lyman and I were appointed a committee to call on Bro[ther] Roberts and see if he had changed his position and tell him if he had not and was willing for us to take immediate action in his case that we would prefer to do so as we wished to fill the vacancy proprior(?) to conference in his quorum if he was to be dropped. . . . Just before theatre time Francis M. Lyman called and told me that he would like to have me meet him and brother Roberts. I agreed to come at any time that he would telephone to me at the theatre. I had no sooner arrived at the theatre than there was a message that brother Lyman wanted me at once at the office of Pres[iden]t Woodruff. I went there at once and had a brief chat with Brothers Lyman and Roberts and he said he was willing to have us take immediate action in his case, and put on his coat to go. I told him that his letter about my talk at East Bountiful Saturday had been received and that he was not the young man to whom I had referred. Just as brother Roberts was going away he said that he wanted us to know that the action that was to be taken against him was causing him the deepest sorrow notwithstanding he had been able to control his feelings, and he did not want us to think that he failed to appreciate all that he was going to lose. I noticed that tears came into his eyes and I said to him that matters were just beginning to be interesting and asked him to be seated. We chatted for some two hours and brother Lyman and I seemed to blessed with ability tn or talk to impress brother Roberts He said when we got ready to party that he would not like to have us report to the brethren tomorrow to take action in his case, but that he would be pleaded to think the matter over during the night and would write to us his decision in the morning. After partying with Bro[ther] Roberts I went to the theatre, With all my hearth I pray that the lord may bless brother B.H. Roberts this night and that He may decide to bow to any decision that his brethren may render in his case. My brother Hurm feels just as I do and hangs on to brother Roberts with all his faith.

[March 13, 1896] Met brother Francis M. Lyman and he asked me if I had seen the letter from Brother Brigham H Roberts, and I answered no, and was surprised and delighted to learn that Bro. Roberts had decided to bow to the wishes of the brethren. I went to the President's office and Bro[ther] Lyman handed me the letter which read as follows I.E. Salt Lake City, March 13, 1896 Elders Lyman and Grant. My Dear Brethren: -- I submit to the authority of God in the brethren. While I can not for I the life of me think of anything in which I have not acted in all good conscience out of an honest heart, yet seeing they think I am in the wrong I will bow to them, and place myself in their hands as the servants of God. This day thirty nine years ago I first saw the light, and now after this struggle I feel lighter. I thank you for your goodness to me. Truly your brother, B.H. Roberts. What joy fills my heart in reading this letter no one but a servant of God who knows that the gospel of Jesus Christ has again been restored to the earth can appreciate. I feel to thank the Lord with all my heart that I have been an instrument in His hands in connection with. Brother Francis M. Lyman in reaching his heart and causing him to go to the Lord. We were greatly blessed in our talk with him last night and I feel impressed today that the right thing to do with men who are a fettle off in their acts is to go to them alone and not bring them up before a council of the priesthood and humiliate them as we did in the case of brother Roberts. I hope sincerely that there will be a very mild requirement made of brother Roberts. I feel that now that he bows to our authority that we should be exceedingly merciful in passing judgement on him. I made a copy of the letter from brother Roberts, and I did not walk across the road to read it to Brother Franklin D. Richards, but I ran over there, and found him and brothers Geo[rge] Teasdale and Geo[rge] Reynolds in his office and I read them the letter from Bro[ther] Roberts and tears of joy came into their eyes. I read it to Pres[iden]t Wilford Woodruff before I left his office and tears came into his eyes. Called at the Temple and told Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow and he was delighted. Met John Henry Smith and tears of joy filled his eyes. Walked home and told my wife Gusta and she was delighted. Me A. H. Cannon and delighted him by reading brother Roberts' letter. I walked down to my brother Brigham E. Grants as Hyrum and wife were there to lunch and I wished to read the letter to him from Bro[ther] Roberts as I knew the great pleasure it would give him. He was delighted. [Told Emily.]

I am indeed a happy man tonight. I felt greater sorrow over the prospect of losing brother Roberts from the labors which he is able to perform in building up of the work of God than any other sorrow that had ever come into my life. I told him that the lose of my only son had not caused me anywhere near the sorrow that his position had. I called at the Herald office this afternoon and had a nice visit with him. He is feeling well. He read me one of the sweetest letters from brother M.F. Cowley that I have ever read. Bro[ther] Cowley had been impressed with a fear that something was going to happen to Bro. Roberts and that Satan was trying to trip him up and there was fear of his priesthood being taken away from him. I felt pleased that Bro[ther] Cowley had the inspiration to write such a letter to Bro[ther] Roberts.

[March 14, 1896] Called on brother Moses Thatcher this evening and found him very low indeed. He told me that he would consider it a great blessing from the Lord if he could be rayed at rest. He felt that he wished to rest and was satisfied with his measure of life and the past five years had worn him out. He told me that he felt impressed with the idea that he had a cancer in his stomach. He is a wonderfully sick man and it looks to me that he can not live very long unless there is a change for the better.

[March 17, 1896] Walking to the office I mat Francis M. Lyman and walked with him to the Utah and Nevada depot, and had a nice little visit. He and I expressed our unqualified delight and gratitude to the Lord that Bro[ther] B.H. Roberts had decided to unite with his brethren. We feel that all that was needed in his case was to let him place himself right before the saints. I find that forgot to record that last night soon after seven I called with brother John Henry Smith and blessed brother Moses Thatcher. He is wonderfully improved since I saw him Saturday night soon after seven I call and I am really surprised and delighted with the great change for the better.

[March 19, 1896] At eleven AM attended a meeting of the Presidency and apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]ts Woodruff, Cannon and Smith and apostles Snow, Richards, Young, Lyman, Smith, Teasdale, Grant, Taylor and Cannon were present. The letter to brother Lyman and me from Elder Roberts was read and we chatted the matter over to some length, and it was felt that the letter did not cover the ground and was not satisfactory, and we decided to have him agree to certain conditions, and a motion was framed covering the ground.

[March 26, 1896] At 11 attended meeting of the brethren in the Temple. Wilford Woodruff, Geo[rge] Q. Cannon, Jos[eph] F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Franklin D. Richards, Brigham Young, Francis M. Lyman, John Henry Smith, George Teasdale, Heber J. Grant, John W. Taylor, Marriner W. Merrill, Abraham H. Cannon, Seymour B. Young, CD Fjeldted, George Reynolds, Brigham H. Roberts, Jonathan G. Kimball, Rulon S. Wells, and Edward Stevenson and clerk Geo[rge] F. Gibbs were present. The brethren of the seventies did not join us until nearly twelve. Before they came in the motion which was adopted last Thursday add which was to be presented today stating what we required of brother B.H. Roberts was discussed at my request. I felt very strongly impressed that the resolution was too cold and would be calculated to wound brother Roberts, and I felt that we should first ask him some questions and give him the chance to make amends and then if he did not cover the ground to have a resolution as strong if not stronger than the one prepared presented and require him to do what we asked or be dropped from his priesthood. It was decided not to read the resolution and I felt very thankful for this. I had spoken to brother Lyman on this matter while we were at Oakley attended the Cassia Stake conference. Prest. Cannon fully explained to brother Roberts our position and he made all right and made as full and complete a restitution as we could have asked him. I have arranged with brother Geo[rge] F. Gibbs to give me a copy of the record of the proceedings today and so I will not make a full record of what transpired. I feel to say with all the power of my being Thank God, and I do hope and pray that Bro[ther] Roberts will have learned a lesson of t humility which will last him all the balance of his life. I love him and I feel that the adversary has done all in his power to destroy him, and I feel that it has been the blessings of the Lord and the influences of His Good Spirit and this alone which has brought Bro[ther] Roberts to see the error of his position and I hope he may never again get on the wrong path. I told my wife Augusta last night that I felt to bow to the blow that had come to me in the death of my only son, but I would indeed be a thankful man if the Lord would show to me that I was not in a position of being under His disfavor, and today while brother Roberts was overcome by his feelings and had promised to make all the restitution that it was within his power to make it came over me with such force that I bowed my head and silently wept, that I had been the chief instrument in the hands of the Lord in getting brother Roberts to stop just as he was on the point of ruin eternally, and it seemed to me that I could not have asked for any greater evidence of the approval of the Lord of me and my labors than to see such fruits of what He had allowed me to assist in bringing about. After the Seven Presidents of the Seventies withdrew some little church business was done.

[March 31, 1896] [Pre-conference quorum meeting in temple.] Lorenzo Snow . . . Franklin D. Richards Spoke of our labors with Elder B.H. Roberts and testified that he was now more beloved by us than ever, seeing that he has humbled himself and become united with this body of men. He wished that we could get Bro[ther] Moses to be one with us. Brigham Young . . . He felt that a majority of the Latter-day Saints are so living today that their lives and the faithfulness of them was calculated to hasten the time of the coming of the Saviour. There are ten men in this room today who are united heart and soul, I believe. Felt that the brethren in the adjoining room, ie the Seven Presidents of Seventies, were united. The First Presidency of the Church were united. Inasmuch as the First Presidency, Eleven Apostles, and all of the Seven Presidents of Seventies were in perfect union, why could we not effect a perfect union in all the quorums of the church . . . FM Lyman [believed that they were being blessed with greater liberty of Spirit than ever before.] Spoke of the remarkable improvement which he had discovered among the people thus far during the present year. Felt like [would like to be blessed to pay debts.] Hoped that experience we had had with Elder Roberts would be the last we would ever have of that kind. Felt God would give us the victory provided we are faithful Did not know of anything which had given him greater joy than the saving of Elder Roberts. [Lorenzo Snow] wanted to know what success had attended the efforts of Bro[ther]s Richards and Grant in favoring with Elder Moses Thatcher. Bro[ther] Richards explained, as so also did I, that we were not aware that we had been appointed to talk with Bro[ther] Moses, but that there had simply been some informal remarks made about the matter and that it would be well for us to visit him. Brigham Young, Lorenzo Young, Myself, Francis M. Lyman and Franklin D. Richards all expressed ourselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses' condition. These brethren not only felt that Bro[ther] Moses' physical condition was very serious indeed, but they also felt that he was in a very dangerous position spiritually. After the remarks of the brethren our meeting adjourned until 2 pm.

John Henry Smith, at the meeting this afternoon, expressed pleasure in listening to what had been said by the brethren this morning. Stated that he felt very delicate indeed about expressing an opinion regarding Bro[ther] Moses or Bro[ther] Roberts, because of his having taken such an active part himself in politics, and also because of his having been associated the political party opposed to these brethren. Felt that because of Bro[ther] Moses’ weak condition physically, and the fact that he has taken more or less morphine to alleviate his pain, that if a committee were appointed to call upon Bro[ther] Thatcher that they should be sure to do so in the morning. He felt well . . . The results politically and otherwise had plainly shown that the policy of the Presidency of the Church was a wise one. Was happy with his brethren, and pleased to be in perfect harmony with them as well as with the Presidency. Teasdale . . . [believed Roberts ancestors on other side had effect of opening his eyes, but he was still on thin ice.] Grant . . . John W. Taylor . . . Referring to a committee being appointed to labor with Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, he said that he felt it would be best to let Bro[ther] Moses entirely along unless he shall improve in health. Did not fear that any bad results would come to the saints if Bro[ther] Moses were to die without becoming united with his brethren. [Adjourned til tomorrow.]

[April 1, 1896] Lorenzo Snow . . . Now that we are a State this fact will greatly assist us in preaching the Gospel as we will have more influence abroad than we possibly could have had under a Territorial form of government. It does seem almost as if we were wasting our apostolic influence by remaining at home and simply visiting the stakes, and while it has been necessary in the past he did not think that it was so necessary today . . .

Franklin D. Richards referred to the fact that after the hard winter and the spring opened that then the seedtime came and subsequently the time of harvest. For some years past we have been passing through what might be called a hard winter, but there has now come to us a great change, and the spring seems to be opening up before us, and the ice and snow of winter seems to be disappearing, and he felt that now is the time for us to go to work planting the seed of the Gospel among the nations of the earth. Referred to the trip of the Presidency to the World's Fair and the great honor shown to them and to the fact that prejudice against our people seemed to be disappearing all over the world. He felt that in trying to spread the gospel more thoroughly that angels would help us in our labor. Referred to the fact that the governor of the State of Utah can give our elders credentials, also to the fact that a United States Senator could if necessary vouch for them. Felt that the Lord would assist us in getting our financial affairs in shape so that we could go on missions. Marriner Merrill . . . The time will come when this nation will ask to have a law of plural marriage established, and it will be practiced agin in Isreal. Plural marriage is a trial for men as well as women. Was doing all he could to be true to his family. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow stated that he was in England with Bro[ther] Pratt when reports came from Nauvoo to the effect that the doctrine of plural marriage was bring taught. Upon his return to Nauvoo in the spring of 1843 he had a long talk with the Prophet Joseph Smith, who fully explained to him the doctrine of plural marriage, and stated that an angel with a drawn sword had visited him and commanded him to go into this principle, and President Smith told Bro[ther] Snow to enter into plural marriage. Pres[iden]t Snow said that the principle was just as true today as it ever was, and bore his testimony to the effect that it will again be practiced by this people.

Abraham H. Cannon expressed gratitude at listening to the testimony of Pres[iden]t Snow. He had never had any doubt since arriving at manhood, but that plural marriage was a true principle of the Gospel. Stated that he had been true to his family, and had divided his time as near as may be equally with his wives. Believed that plural marriage would yet be practiced by this Church, and acknowledged all right by this nation. Had been much pleased with Bro. Young's suggestion regarding [apostles visiting missions].

Prest. Lorenzo Snow stated that it was his belief that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would so arrange matters that those brethren who have wives can live with them and raise families by them. Believed that the Lord would assist us in softening the hearts of officials. He said he felt to bless the brethren in keeping their covenants with their families and living with them.

Francis M Lyman testified to the truthfulness of the remarks of Bro[ther] Merrill regarding plural marriage. He felt that when the time came that this principle was again established among the people, he thought that men would be selected to enter into this principle, and not be allowed to do so from mere choice, as had been the case in years gone by. He felt that no man, unless he was a servant of God in very deed should be permitted to marry more than one wife. . . .

Bro[ther] Brigham Young asked about Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, the condition of his health and spirits, and expressed a desire that some one should call on Bro[ther] Moses and bless him and endeavor to harmonize his feelings with those of his brethren.

[April 2, 1896] [Much discussion on change to financial control of funds to Trustee away from Presiding Bishop.]

[April 8, 1896] Pres Geo[rge] Q. Cannon today, started east, in the private car of Supt. Ed Dickinson of the Union Pacific system. He traveled with the Vanderbilt and Depew party, and went in response to the invitation by wire of Pres S.S.H. Clark of the U.P.

[April 12, 1896] At one pm attended my prayer circle in the Temple. I requested that a special prayer should be offered that the Lord would touch the heart of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, and lead him to become united with his brethren.

[April 13, 1896] The tribune this morning, in their local account of my sermon of yesterday accuse me of making a vicious attack on Apostle Moses Thatcher. The accusation is contained in the headlines to the report and the comments of the reporter as there is nothing in the synopsis of my remarks which would justify any such statement as that I had made an attack on Bro[ther] Moses. I am very thankful to be able to report that I never even so much as thought of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher while speaking yesterday. I was talking simply upon principle and had no man in my mind.

[April 16, 1896] . . . when we adjourned to the office of the First Presidency, where we met Judge Adams and Theodore F. Meyer of St. Louis. After a short conversation with these gentlemen we resumed our business which was not finished while at our meeting at the Temple [sent to California for money].

[April 18, 1896] [On train] Having learned before leaving that Sister Georgie Snow Thatcher, felt very much hurt over my remarks last Sunday and that they were intended to reflect upon her husband, I wrote her a long letter, assuring her that she was very much mistaken in entertaining any such an opinion. [Grant has often been in contact with her on social occasions; Moses absent.]

[April 23, 1896] [Back from San Francisco with Tabernacle Choir] I went direct to the temple where I met with Prests. Woodruff and Smith and apostles Snow, Richards, Young, Lyman, Smith, Taylor, Merrill and Cannon. The brethren were discussing a sermon which Jos[eph] F. Smith had delivered at Provo, when I came in. The feeling was that the declaration of Church Discipline read at our late conference was not intended to apply to any but the leading members of the Church and any as were engaged all the in the service of the Church.

[April 28, 1896] Heber J. Grant & Co at the time of the division on party lines, had $49,000 of Herald stock which cost them par and they subsequently paid a 20% assessment on the same, and as this stock is now entirely wiped out of existence, our little firm, not counting interest on our money, has had $59,000 of experience because of the division on party lines, and by counting interest the amount would aggregate very nearly if not fully $80,000.

[April 29, 1896] At 4 pm I was at President Woodruff's office in company with President Joseph F. Smith and several of the quorum of the Apostles to meet Elder BH Roberts and JC DeLamare. Bro[ther] DeLamare is a resident of Tooele, and at the recent conference of that Stake declined to sustain the declaration of church discipline, and was suspended as an alternate member of the High council [did not show; house burned down; sent home] . . . met Notary Public Hurd and signed and acknowledged as vice-president of the Herald Publishing Company a deed in favor of Mr. RC Chambers, transferring all of the property belonging to said Company.

[April 30, 1896] Bro[ther] Lyman told of the suspension of Bro[ther] John C. DeLamare, of Tooele, and it was the sense of the meeting that we approve of his action but that in the future that before suspending a man as a member of the High Council the approval of such action should be obtained from the Stake Presidency and the members of the High Council. Apostles Snow, Richards, Young, Lyman, Smith, Taylor, Cannon and myself were present at our meeting today. I wrote some letters to Heber Wells and others. . . .

[May 2, 1896] [Logan conference] I explained that the recent newspaper reports to the effect that I had made an attack upon Apostle Moses Thatcher were not correct as I did not have Bro[ther] Thatcher or any one else in my mind while speaking, but that I was simply talking on principle, and urging the saints to be charitable and sustain the authorities who preside over them.

[May 3, 1896] [Conference, preceded by Joseph F. Smith and John Henry Smith] I then read the declaration of church discipline, and it was voted upon by the saints in a very hearty manner. In fact, I do not recall that I have ever seen a vote where it appeared to me there were so many hands raided in favor of the proposition. Prest. Smith, in his remarks, stated that it had been claimed that the people of Cache Valley did not sustain this declaration, and it had been intimated that the damned thing was being crowed down the throats of the people, and that he had characterized this statement as a vile slander on the character of the Cache Valley Saints. He requested all of the people to vote for or against the document, and told them that the intimation that if people did not sustain this document, they stood in danger of losing their fellowship, was not correct. As near as I could judge there were not to exceed eight or ten votes in opposition to the acceptance of the declaration.

[May 4, 1896] I have enjoyed my visit to Cache Valley very much, and my only regret is that all of the members of the High Council of the Cache Stake did not endorse the declaration of church discipline. I was, however, especially pleased to have the document voted for by Bro[ther] George Barber.

[May 5, 1896] Had a long confidential talk with Rulon S. Wells and Frank R Snow. I explained to both of these brethren fully the position that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher occupied in my judgement, and also told of our experience with Elder B.H. Roberts. Explained many things which had led up, in my opinion, to the position which is now occupied by Brother Thatcher. Called at the office of President Woodruff and explained to him that the statement contained in yesterday's morning's Herald to the effect that fully one-third of the people at the recent Cache Stake Conference had refrained from voting in favor of the declaration on Church discipline was a falsehood pure and simple, as the vote had been one of the most hearty which it had ever been my lot to witness either in a general or stake conference.

[May 7, 1896] Going from the President's office I met John E. Carlisle of Logan and had a long and confidential chat with him, and explained to him what in my judgment had been the causes which had led up to the position which Apostle Moses Thatcher now occupies.

[May ll, 1896] [Vernal conference] At the conference this afternoon I spoke about fifteen minutes with reference to the document recently issued and sustained at the General Conference in Salt Lake City on Church discipline, explaining among other things that the statement contained in the Herald regarding the vote at the Cache Conference was not true, and asking all of the saints to vote for or against the document. Counselor Collett then read it I then called for a vote, and there was one opposition vote, and in response to my request for all those who did not vote at all to make manifest there were but two hands raised.

[May 13, 1896] [Smith's Well, Carbon County] met Commercial Traveler Barlow, and he handed me a News giving an account of the resignation of B.H. Roberts as the editor of the Salt Lake Herald. I was very glad that Roberts had resigned, as I appreciated the fact that his association with the paper under its present management much of necessity be very unpleasant . . .

[May 15, 1896] Had a chat with the Presidency regarding the editorial which appeared in this morning's issue of the Herald with reference to the alleged statements of Pres[iden]t Smith at the recent High Council meeting in Logan, to the effect that a deal had been made with leading republicans of the nation to deliver to the Republican party the Territory of Utah as a Republican State. I felt that inasmuch as this statement was absolutely false, and as the Presidency and Apostles had never been a party to any such a deal, that some contradiction ought to be made of these statements. No action, however, was taken in the premises.

[May 16, 1896] I met Hon. J.L. Rawlins this morning and had quite an extended chat with him regarding the editorial in the Herald yesterday, and assured him that there was absolutely no truth what ever in the purported deal which had been made between leading Republicans and the leading Church officials to make Utah a Republican State.

[May 25, 1896] [Hoden] At the conference this afternoon I spoke about fifteen regarding the declaration on church principles, after which stake clerk Christian read the declaration and I called for a vote on the same, and there were none who voted in opposition. I then called for those who had not voted, if there were any, to make it manifest by a show of hands and I did not notice any who had refrained from voting.

[May 26, 1896] Spent the evening with Gusta at Bishop Nelson A. Empey's. . . . Bro[ther] Empey asked me a number of questions regarding Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher's feelings, and I very frankly explained to him in confidence the position which I felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher occupied, namely, that he was very much seriously in the dark, and that unless he changed in his spirit, that I felt confident that should he regain his health sufficiently so that he could meet with his brethren and have his case investigated that he would be apt to lose his priesthood as an Apostle. I felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was in the position of a man who accused his brethren and the Church of wrong while he himself, in his own opinion, was in the right. The Prophet Joseph, on page 271 of the Compendium, is reported to have said that a man in this condition was in the highway to apostacy, and would apostacize unless he repented.

I told Bishop Empey that I hoped and prayed the Bro[ther] Moses' health might be softened and that he might yet place himself in perfect harmony with his brethren, but that as he had been more or less lacking in harmony with them for a number of years past, that I was filled with apprehensions regarding him. I explained that it was indeed sorrowful to me to have these fears, and I requested Bro[ther] Empey to treat my remarks as strictly confidential.

[May 28, 1896] [Council meeting] Pres[iden]t Jos[eph] F. Smith gave us an account of his recent visit to Logan, where he attended the conference of the Young Men's Mutual Improvement Association. He stated that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher was in Logan, but did not attend the meeting. Stated that an officers' meeting was held at which the question as to whether or not the name of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher should be sustained at the Conference as one of the counselors to General Superintendent Woodruff was very extensively discussed. Some of the brethren feeling that the name should be presented and others that it should not be. It was finally decided not to present Bro[ther] Thatcher's name to the conference. Bro[ther] Smith explained that Bro[ther] Thatcher was talking with his friends in Logan, and carrying the impression that he was absolutely right in the position which he had taken, and was endeavoring, from all he could learn, to create a sympathy in his favor and a feeling of opposition against his brethren of the presidency and Apostles. He related of having heard of the conversation wherein a prominent man in talking of Bullion Beck and Champion matters, and the differences which had existed between Bro[ther]s Cannon and Thatcher, that this man had said that George Q. Cannon had tried to take advantage of widows and orphans, and that Bro[ther] Thatcher had opposed this and had endeavored to protect the interests of widows and orphans in this property. This prominent brother said that the best thing that could happen would be for George Q. Cannon to go out and die. President Smith felt that to allow any such outrageous falsehoods as this to be circulated among the people even in a private way was causing a very serious state of affairs, and he expressed it as his opinion that if Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher's health was sufficiently robust, that he could visit Logan and attend to business and other matters there that he was sufficiently strong physically for the quorum of the Apostles to hold a meeting with him and insist upon his harmonizing himself with his brethren, or that he should be disfellowshipped from the quorum. Prest. Wilford Woodruff said that the time had arrived when he felt it was his duty to insist upon action in this matter. Whenever anything or any individual has ever stood in the way if the advancement of the work of God, that thing or that man must be removed out of the way. He called upon Pres[iden]t Snow and his quorum to rise up and take action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that it was the duty of the Apostles to take action. With Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher in his present state of mind the devil has a very strong advocate in him, and he should not be permitted to hold his present position unless he repents. God is not withholding his judgments from coming upon the nations of the earth. He is not staying his hand. Those angels, to whom I referred at Brigham City, who were to go forth and visit the judgements of God upon the nations, are at work. It is time something was done in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and the sooner we commence and the better for all Isreal. Cannot allow the work of the Lord to stop for Moses Thatcher or any other man. Lorenzo Snow expressed himself as being in perfect accord with the sentiments uttered by Prest. Woodruff. Felt that Bro[ther] Thatcher was not worthy to stand as an Apostle. Referred to the troubles in the days of Kirtland, and of the quarrel in the Kirtland Temple, where a Brother Parrish rose up and cursed Bro[ther] Smith, the father of the Prophet. Referred to the fact that so many of the leading officials fell at this time that it seemed as though the Church of God would be destroyed, but the Lord had sustained the brethren in disfellowshipping those who were not faithful, and he testified that the Lord would sustain us at all times in doing our duty. In case we take action against Bro[ther] Moses a great howl will go up over the matter, and we will be bitterly accused for lack of charity, etc. But he felt that this should not deter us from doing our duty in the premises.

Wilford Woodruff stated that the time had come for us to take action.

Bro[ther]s Snow and Lyman felt that it would be wise for the First Presidency to meet with the quorum of the Apostles when we had Bro[ther] Thatcher before us. Pres[iden]t George Q. Cannon did not think that the First Presidency should not meet with the quorum of Apostles and Bro[ther] Thatcher. He thought that the differences between Bro[ther] Thatcher and the quorum and the position which he was in was a matter which should be considered by the Apostles. He said he would state some things which he had never before mentioned, and one was that for many years he had had no confidence whatever in Bro[ther] Thatcher, as he had been guilty of circulating falsehoods against him. He referred to the fact that while he was in the penitentiary that Bro[ther] Thatcher had accused him of having money belonging to Bro[ther] Thatcher, and stated that he was going to start suit for the recovery of this money. After Pres[iden]t Cannon had been liberated from the penitentiary he proved in the presence of the Apostles that not only was he not in debt to Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, but on the contrary, there was a small balance somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. due to him from Bro[ther] Thatcher, and that this amount was subsequently paid. Bro[ther] Moses, however, had never so much as apologized to him or to the quorum of Twelve Apostles for having made such an accusation and threatening to take one of his brethren before the courts of the land. Bro[ther] Cannon said he would be only too willing to forgive Bro[ther] Thatcher, provided he would pace himself in harmony with his quorum.

Pres[iden]t Jos[eph] F. Smith said that unless Bro[ther] Thatcher changed from his present position that he was willing to make a motion that he be dropped as a member of the quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and that his place be filled by some honorable man.

Heber J. Grant referred to the fact that at a meeting of the quorum of the Apostles held last January, Bro[ther] Brigham Young and other members of the quorum had stated that they felt that some action should be taken in Bro[ther] Moses' case, and that instead of being an act of mercy and kindness on our part because of his poor health, to not insist on his harmonizing himself with his brethren that it was the exact opposite, and that we were doing him a great injustice by not taking some action. Bro[ther] Grant stated that he and some of the other brethren had expressed themselves as in favor of taking no action in Bro(?) Moses' case, but that he should be left absolutely alone while in such a delicate state of health. Today, however, he felt to acknowledge that the inspiration to Bro[ther] Brigham Young and others was the correct one, and that it would have been better to have taken some action in Bro[ther] Thatcher's case last January.

Brigham Young felt pleased that we were about to take some action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, because he felt that it would be in the interest of the saints to let them know exactly where Bro[ther] Thatcher stands. Felt that we should meet Bro[ther] Thatcher at some place outside of the Temple. We should deal calmly and firmly and disfellowship him unless he placed himself in harmony with his brethren. He had never felt that Moses Thatcher was right in his spirit from the day he threatened in the Gardo House to sue Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon.

Bro[ther] John Henry Smith, while regretting deeply the position occupied by Bro[ther] Thatcher, was nevertheless willing to join his brethren in taking action against Bro[ther] Moses. He, however, felt that Moses, on account of being addicted to the use of morphine, was hardly a responsible man.

Bro[ther] Grant and others called Bro[ther] Smith's attention to the fact that Bro[ther] Thatcher's position since he commenced using morphine was in perfect harmony with that which he occupied a number of years prior to becoming addicted to this habit.

It was finally decided that a meeting should be held with Bro[ther] Thatcher by the Apostles, and that the First Presidency should not attend said meeting.

[May 31, 1896] [Utah stake MIA conference] The name of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher was omitted as a counselor to General Superintendent Woodruff. Abraham H. Cannon was sustained in addition to the former assistants to the General Superintendency, and in addition to aids heretofore sustained to the General Superintendency of the Young Ladies, Sister Rose Wallace was selected.

[June 4, 1896] [Council meeting] We had anticipated holding a meeting this afternoon at 3 o'clock with Apostle Moses Thatcher, but we learned that his health was in such a precarious condition, he having had a relapse yesterday, that it would be impossible for us to have such meeting.

[June 11, 1896] At 11 am attended prayer circle in the temple. Presidents Woodruff, Cannon and Smith Apostles Snow, Richards, Lyman, Smith, Taylor, Cannon and myself were present. The question of making some change in the methods of conducting the business of the presiding bishop's office was discussed. I brought up the question of our people joining the third or Populist party, and when the brethren who spoke on the matter expressed themselves that it was a mistake for the brethren to join the Populist party, yet they did not feel that it would be wise to make a public declaration to this effect as it might be considered an interference by the church in political matters.

[July 7, 1896] [Quarterly quorum meeting] Bro[ther] Abraham H. Cannon could not meet with us as he is seriously ill. After prayer, Pres[iden]t Snow said that he felt that we had great cause to rejoice because of the perfect union and love existing between eleven of the quorum of the apostles He felt that if there had ever been any men living upon the earth, who had cause for rejoicing it was these eleven apostles. Felt to plead with the Lord to touch the heart of Bro[ther] Moses and show him the condition that he was in. Had not felt to crowd Bro[ther] Thatcher, at the same time he thought something should be done. Referred to the trials and temptations with Moses of old was best . . .

Brigham Young . . . spoke of the Gardo House incident, when Moses Thatcher accused George Q. Cannon with dishonesty, and threatened a lawsuit. He referred to the fact that Moses had never been called to account for thus wrongfully accusing one of his brethren, and wondered if we had not done wrong in this and other similar cases, in not demanding from Bro[ther] Moses, that he make restitution. He thought it was mistaken sympathy to allow men to do wrong, and not taking prompt action to require them to make proper restitution.

[July 8, 1896] At 10 am attended a meeting of the Apostles in the Temple. Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow offered the opening prayer, and he very earnestly supplicated the Lord in behalf of Apostle Moses Thatcher. John Henry Smith said that he did not look on him the same as a man who had become addicted to the use of liquor to the extent that he was not responsible for his actions. Bro[ther] Moses had been addicted to the use of morphine. He related a dream he had which he had had in relation to Bro[ther] Thatcher, which had given him the impression that Bro[ther] Moses would not have any great influence in leading the Saints from the path of duty should he fail to harmonize with hie brethren, and we be under the necessity of taking action against him. Expressed the very best of feelings and perfect fellowship for the Presidency and the members of the quorum of the Apostles. Felt the more active we were in mingling among the people the better it would be for us.

Heber J. Grant I related a number of incidents regarding the labors of Bro[ther] Thatcher, and his failure to mingle among the people, and magnify his office as an Apostle since I became a member of the quorum, and stated that while I continued to hope and pray that he would yet place himself in harmony with his quorum, that I was unable to have much faith that he would do so John W Taylor said that he felt fater(?) considering the matter, and the acts of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher for many years past, that he, Bro[ther] Taylor, had been wasting altogether too much sympathy over Bro[ther] Thatcher's case. Felt well towards his brethren. Told that he had been down between meetings and visited Bro[ther] Abraham H. Cannon, who was very sick, and in his opinion was very low condition. He felt well while administering to Bro[ther] Abraham.

[July 9, 1896] Joseph F. Smith felt that some action ought to be taken at once in the case of Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher, as he was confident that great damage was being done by allowing the matter to run along without any decided action, as some of the people were beginning to think that the Apostles were undecided regarding Bro[ther] Moses' case and dare not take action against him. [George Thatcher is also in some kind of trouble.]

John W. Taylor felt that some action should be taken as once in Bro[ther] Moses' case He said that in making molasses it was necessary occasionally for the pot to boil over to allow the scum to pass off, and he felt that in Bro[ther] Thatcher's case, if action were take quite a number professing to be Latter Day Saints, but who kept none of the commandments of the Lord, would withdraw from the Church, and in his opinion this would be very beneficial.

Francis M. Lyman expressed himself that we should take some action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher at an early date, seeing that he was considerably improved in health.

Wilford Woodruff stated that in his opinion it was the duty of the quorum of the Apostles to take prompt action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher.

Geo[rge] Q. Cannon expressed similar views to those of the other brethren. Referred to the visit of Counselor William Howard of the Emery Stake bo the First Presidency, and the fact of Bro[ther] Howard's previously conversing with the brethren and felt that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher had been dealt harshly with, and was inclined to sympathize with him if not almost to sustain him in his position.

Diary Excerpts of Heber J. Grant, 1887-1899, Internally Dated

MW Merrill expressed deep regret that there was any necessity for action in the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher, but thought something should be done as some of the people were saying that the Apostles had made a mistake in Bro[ther] Thatcher's case and dare not deal with him.

(Grant) I expressed myself as agreeing with my brethren who had previously spoken, and said that since I became an Apostle that Bro[ther] Thatcher, in my opinion, had very seriously neglected his duties as an Apostle, and that it was seldom that he ever attended a stake quarterly conference with the exception of Cache stake and the stakes in the vicinity of his home.

Joseph F. Smith again expressed himself as feeling that we were injuring those who were weak in the faith, by not taking action in Bro[ther] Thatcher's case. Referred to the fact that Bro[ther] Ja[me]s H. Moyle voted against the address at a recent meeting in the 12th ward, and that since that time he had had an interview with the First Presidency, and had assured them that there were very many young men in the community, who felt just as he did, and if they voted their honest sentiments they would be found in opposition to the address, but they lacked the moral courage to take a stand in opposition to the address. Bro[ther] Moyle had assured the brethren that there were a great many who felt that the Apostles were wrong and the Bro[ther] Thatcher was right, and that they were expecting Bro[ther] Moses to be vindicated. Pres[iden]t Smith felt that the Church must be looked after, and while he had not the least hardness in his hearth against Bro[ther] Moses, at the same time he felt that we were not justified in pursuing a halting course in his case.

Wilford Woodruff expressed the opinion that the longer we left this case without some action, that the worse condition it would be in. The Presidency then withdrew from our meeting, and we appointed Bro[ther]s Richards and Young a committee to call upon Bro[ther] Moses, and learn the state of his feelings, and report at a meeting of our quorum at seven this evening.

At our meeting tonight, Bro[ther]s Richards and Young reported that they had visited Bro[ther] Moses, and found that there was no change whatever in his feelings, but on the contrary, he was more confirmed than ever in his position of opposition, to the address issued at the last conference.

Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow, after hearing the report of Bro[ther]s Richards and Young, said that he would like each of the brethren to express themselves regarding Bro[ther] Moses’ case. Referred to the fact that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher had been ordained to the Apostleship, and that this was the nearest place to God that man can reach in this life. And that men who receive this high office were under obligations to so live as to be entitled to the inspiration of the Good Spirit at all times. Bro[ther] Moses was not in perfect harmony with the Presidency of the Church, the Apostles, the first seven presidents of the seventies, and the presiding bishopric. He was satisfied that action in this case would be the best possible thing for Bro[ther] Moses himself. He asked Bro[ther] John W. Taylor to be the first speaker.

John W. Taylor said Moses is the leader of all the dissenters in the church, and gives sympathy and encouragement to those who are in opposition to the Priesthood of God, and I can not fellowship him. I think one thing can bring Moses to his senses it will be for us to take action in his case. Moses is one of the worst enemies that the church has, as he is poisoning men's minds. I am in favor of withdrawing fellowship from him. He is today associating with men and in harmony with them in many things, who would gladly destroy the Church of God. Was on hand to vote upon the question whenever it should be called.

George Teasdale said that he thought the best things we can do is to withdraw fellowship from Bro[ther] Moses, as he is not in harmony with this quorum, or the First Presidency of the Church. He remembered that it was with difficulty that Bro[ther] Thatcher was admitted to the Temple at Salt Lake at the time of its dedication. Bro[ther] Moses at that time had surrendered to his brethren simply because they demanded it, and not because he had been convinced in his heart that they were right and he was wrong. The only reason that he had been willing to wait and not take action before in Bro[ther] Moses' case was on account of his poor health. If Moses was able to visit the lake as he had been doing for some time past, and intended to do again today, his health certainly was not so poor but what he could have met with us today.

John Henry Smith Have felt Moses was not responsible for his actions because of his excessive use of morphine. He was practically a drunken man (Bro[ther] John W. Taylor asked the question "How long would you feel to fellowship a drunkard, Br Smith?" to which question Bro[ther] Smith did not give a very decided answer). He felt that this case was a very serious one indeed, and had dreaded it more than anything else in his life. Moses was a broken down man, and he had been impressed with the idea that his influence for harm among the saints was very limited indeed. Said that he should be one with his brethren in whatever action they should decide to take in this case. Because of family relations and disposition politically he could not help regretting that more time was not to be granted in this case and felt in his heart of hearts that he would like, considering the condition of Bro[ther] Moses' health to give him more time.

Pres[iden]t Lorenzo Snow said that he and all the rest of the quorum regretted that we had to bring this case to a crisis, and we would all gladly vote for more time, did we not think that it would be injurious to the work of the Lord to do so.

Heber J. Grant felt that action should be taken. Said Moses had accused Pres[iden]t Geo[rge] Q. Cannon at the time of the death of Pres[iden]t John Taylor, of trying to steal the presidency of the Church, and from that day to this had never repented of his accusation (which Heber had) against Bro[ther] Cannon, and had gradually gone on from then till now, neglecting his duties as an Apostle, until today he was not in harmony with either the Presidency or any of the leading officials of the church, and it was time that action was taken, no matter how painful the task. Moses health had improved enough of late so that he was able to go to Saltair, and take a bath and in as much as he did this at times when he knew that the Apostles were meeting in the Temple, and as he had been specially reminded of our meeting, it seemed to him that the excuse that he was unable to meet with us was hardly justifiable.

MW Merrill felt that the expressions of the Presidency to day at our sacrament meeting was the inspiration of the Lord. Moses thinks we are all his enemies, except Pres[iden]t Snow. Felt very deeply grieved over the course of Bro[ther] Moses. Felt that whatever action we might take through the direction of the Pres[iden]t of our quorum will be for the best good of the Church. Referred to the fact that many years ago while Pres[iden]t Brigham Young was at his home (called attention to dead limb ought not to all how it to remain as whole tree would be injured thereby) and he felt that the case of Bro[ther] Thatcher was somewhat analogous to the dead limb. Believed it ds dangerous to delay action in cases of this kind. He referred to the fact that there are many people who think that the Presidency and this quorum dare not handle Bro[ther] Moses, and he was convinced that it was time that we should do something.

Francis M. Lyman stated that he felt that the question before us was a very grave one indeed, but his feelings were in harmony with those expressed by his brethren. Referred to the fact that between our meetings today he had visited Apostle Abraham H. Cannon, and had explained to him that we were going to consider Bro[ther] Moses' case, and that Bro[ther] Cannon had sent a message by him that he wished it understood that he was one with the members of his quorum in whatever action they might decide to take. Bro[ther] Lyman referred to the neglect of duty on the party of Bro[ther] Moses in visiting the different quarterly conferences and wondered what condition the church would be in today if we all had all been as careless as Bro[ther] Moses in visiting the quarterly conferences of the stakes of Zion. He felt that Moses Thatcher was in a condition of apostacy, and that we should make a change against him of apostacy and give him two weeks notice to appear and answer to his charge.

Brigham Young expressed regrets that Bro[ther] Moses Thatcher looked so bad physically and also regretted that he felt so rebellious in his spirit. Said his sympathy said to him, give Moses time, but his judgment told him that the proper medicine for Bro[ther] Moses was to inform him just exactly where he stood as he had no idea that the Apostles were even thinking of such a thing as permanently withdrawing fellowship from him. Felt the sooner that we give Moses to understand that he must harmonize himself with his brethren or lose his Apostleship the better it would be for him. Said he could not fellowship Bro[ther] Moses, and yet his heart bled for him.

Franklin D. Richards, felt that by making a charge of apostacy against Bro[ther] Thatcher that we could very much better defend ourselves before the people than by taking some action without preferring a regular charge against him. As if we were to do this all Isreal would feel that we were lacking in sympathy. He felt the same as his brethren that it was a very painful thing indeed to take action against Bro[ther] Moses, and yet he thought it ought to be done.

Lorenzo Snow said he liked the suggestion of Bro[ther] Lyman with reference to making a formal charge of apostacy. He did not think that delay would do Bro[ther] Moses one particle of good at the same time he thought that it was the wisest thing to do so as not to affect those who were weak in the faith. Fe